Billy Sheehan Interview

VIDEOTAPED: Sunday February 10, 2008

I met celebrity Scientologist Billy Sheehan at the Anonymous picket in Los Angeles.

Here’s some of the things we talked about:

OT 3

Vistaril in Hubbard at Death

Tragic Death of Elli Perkins

The Trial of Jesse Prince

Scientology Justice System

Fair Game

Bob Minton Harassment Timeline

Operation Snow White

Stipulation of Evidence

Gays in Scientology

Operation Freakout

Altering the Tech

Lisa McPherson

Documents of a Lifetime

UPDATE:

Answers to some questions in the talkback:

I had no idea that he was a celebrity.  I just thought he was a guy named Billy, which of course is still true.  When people on the web started to mention Mr. Big and bass guitar status, I looked him up and found his website.  I’m sorry to say if I stumbled into an old geezer named Mick with the same sign, I would have had to have been told Jagger was the last name.

I brought up XENU and BT just to prove a point that his sign said he was happy and willing to discuss ANYTHING about his religion yet — he can’t.  Scientology has secrets it doesn’t want divulged and members fall in lockstep following the groups order.  I made that point and I believe Billy understood it.

The interview was actually cut short as I raced to shoot some footage of Anonymous in a mass chant, then shortly after had to leave the event because of my health.  I would have gone into things like disconnection and RPF and others abuses had I been able to return and finish.  Billy was nice enough to step into the Subway were I was resting in the air conditioning to shake my hand and say goodbye.

As for the badgering of Billy, I cannot tell others to butt out.  All I could do was try to set an example of keeping the discussion calm and friendly.   Billy seemed to be holding up okay and has sent his thanks for putting the interview up unedited.

Explore posts in the same categories: Anonymous, Events

34 Comments on “Billy Sheehan Interview”

  1. Jane Says:

    ~!!!AWESOME!!!

    Seems like such a nice guy. The true “beleiver’s” are mostly (not always) real nice people.

    They don’t deserve what happens to them. And it is not their fault.

    They are not fools because they were fooled.

    Thank you, Mark, or all you are doing and have done.

    K.

  2. Mark Says:

    Excellent Video Mark. Billy Sheehan should be commended for being up front and talking with you and the rest of the protesters. He did it on his own and was not afraid to communicate. Good for him. If the rest of Scientology would follow suit, they would have much less problems.

    He is typical of a public Scientologist. They get told one side of the story and are not open to looking at the other side. They are told that the facts are not correct. Documents were “planted” etc etc. This forms their viewpoint. Public Scientologists are not aware of what is really going on and if they are told, they don’t believe what they are being told.

    He should be commended for coming out and talking.

  3. brain Says:

    This is a really good interview.

    I’m curious, with SOO many reports of so much control it’s interesting to see this guy talk about being pretty free and not worried about sec checks. I’m guessing they treat celebrities completely differently. I get the feeling that if he wanted to leave, he wouldn’t have to blow in the middle of the night.

    I agree that the individuals should be held responsible, but I also think illegal activities are embedded into the LHR tech. So the organization should be held somewhat responsible.

    He’s right people do need to sit down and talk with documentation. It would be cool if you could schedule a real debate with him.

    P.S. ALBERT EINSTEIN DID NOT FAIL MATH.

  4. Sean Says:

    You perhaps should have pointed out that he’s a celebrity, and thus treated with kid gloves compared to the vast unwashed masses of scientologists.

    The differences between how the church treats him and his celebrity ilk are significant.

  5. pjs Says:

    facepalm…..my hero has fallen

    the creepy OSA van was watching him closely

  6. Xenu 101 Says:

    Very interesting video, I obviously disagree with Sheehan but he was very well spoken and respectful, and I’m of course very behind that. Probably the best dialog I’ve ever seen with a practising Scientologist.

    I honestly do think that he could have come of his own accord. It seems to me that the Celebrity Centre runs in a very different way than the average org, they know celebrities are very important to their cause and they treat them way better than any standard member. It’s sort of sad in my opinion that this guy’s honest word is being taken advantage of to suck people into a cult that is run very differently than the thinks it is. It’s unlikely that he would be treated badly for doing this, this was some good publicity for Scientology regardless of whether or not what he said was true (which doesn’t seem to matter much).

    If this is truly the way OSA is moving to operate in, it’s obvious that they’ve realized their old tactics are starting to fail in the 21st century world. It’s a lot easier to condemn Scientologists when they act in such blatantly wrong manners (such as your own treatment a few years back). This new “brand” of OSA (if they were involved) would be a lot more difficult to fight. I do like that they may be moving away from abusing SPs, but they will still be defrauding millions from their followers and that’s still wrong.

  7. Rev. Moose Rocket Says:

    Wow what an amazing interview. At what point during the interview did you know that it was Billy Sheehan the bass player, and not just some guy?!

  8. Noxat Says:

    Great interview! That guy stayed very calm even under some intense scrutiny.

  9. Stu Says:

    If David Miscavige was ousted and Billy Sheehan was put in his place, I think CoS would become a very different organization and much of the (very justified) controversy about the group would go away.

    Kudos to Billy for having the courage to enter the “lion’s den” and discuss what he was able to discuss.

    And kudos to Mr. Bunker for conducting a very respectful and fascinating interview. You didn’t back down, but you treated him with respect.

    Awesome.

  10. j w wright Says:

    oh no, not billy, one of my favorite bass players… that guy rocks. celebrities get special treatment in the Co$ and celebrities arent known for being notorious brainiacs… they’re easy prey for the church.

  11. David Says:

    Whilst personable, he was just as evasive and devious as any other scientologist. Witness the way he refused to address the fact that Scientology had admitted Freakout and Snow White and the way he tried to infer that the OT3 materials have been altered.

    Those are just two examples. Polite, but closed down discussion with the usual tactics.

  12. Anon Says:

    On the question as to if Celebs get treated different from the rest of the other scientologists, this interview brings up interesting items.
    1. He says the OTIII version he saw is different from the texts he read on the internet, L. Ron Hubbard’s writing & he claims is different from Magoo’s version.
    2. Although not specified, it seems as if he did not have to go through any disconnects with his family.
    3. He feels confident he will not get in trouble for speaking with you openly & it will not result in any PTS punishments.

  13. Narcissus Says:

    I was hoping he might be the first $cientologist ever to admit that Op Freakout was a horribly wrong thing to do. It’s so obviously wrong, but they’ll never concede that their “church” did anything wrong.
    I’m with David in his remark that Mr. Musician was nice but still “evasive and devious” in his answers.
    I don’t see any hope for a “reformed” organization until followers can freely admit the CoS committed wrongs. No hope whatsoever.

  14. James Says:

    Just because the guy is personable and well-spoken it doesn’t in any way mitigate the fraud and abuse carried out by the cult he so fervently follows.

    He is the very embodiment of Scientology, believing in a carefully altered reality and ignoring documented evidence. He is evasive about OTIII despite carrying a sign stating that he is will to talk about anything in his religion. I find his reasoning behind this and the analogy offered (the whole teaching a child nuclear physics thing) to be rather patronising.

    His arguments involve smokescreen techniques of attempting to create reasonable doubt, even when faced with the documented and provable issues of Freakout and Snow White

    This whole touchy-feely “I am your friend” approach is an insult to all those who have suffered at the hands of the cult and continue to suffer today.

  15. Bill W Says:

    I turned the video off 10 minutes into because I couldn’t take the badgering of Billy anymore. Mark, it would have been entirely more effective if only YOU or Tory had asked questions and allowed Billy to respond accordingly. If a truely open dialouge is what you were after, then BOTH sides have to be able to speak freely. Some of the picketters were really hounding Billy and not letting him finish his statements. That said, I liked how he was very open and how respectful the process turned out.

  16. JJ Says:

    I find it interesting that Billy once played in a band called “Niacin” which is Vitamin B3 used in CO$ detoxification program.

  17. Scan Says:

    This was a very good interview, despite the interruptions by others.

    However, you say that you have documentation that is able to controvert Mr. Sheehans assertions that evidence was planted.

    Yet these documents do not support your case either.

    First you say that supposedly Operation Snow White was a covert operation to steal government documents yet this assertion is contradicted by the actual document which states under “plans”, that the objective is “To engage in various litigation….”, which means to me to obtain these documents by use of the FOIA.

    Nothing in here about pilfering documents from the US or any other government.

    http://www.xenu.net/archive/go/ops/go732/go732a.htm

    Although may have what happened due to various circumstances.

    However, all I’m saying in my opinion ,is that “Snow White” in my opinion is not the “smoking gun” that many claim it is and doesn’t “prove” by itself that the Guardians Office was involved in an illegal intelligence action.

    You also say that Mary Sue Hubbard plead guilty and you have documents to confirm this as well, yet the fact is according to your website you don’t:

    http://www.xenu.net/archive/CourtFiles/

    All you have are the various appeals filed, since the actual conviction in which the actual plea by the defendants was actually Nolo contendere, which is covered in Omar Garrison’s book , which can be read here:

    http://www.freezone.org/timetrack/data/Playing_Dirty/index.htm

    My final point is that you seem to dismiss Mr. Sheehan’s assertion that evidence was planted out of hand yet historically it has been proven that the FBI has done exactly that in the past and many feel are continuing to do so in the present:

    http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/cointelpro/cointel.htm

  18. panda Says:

    the lady is so kickass. she waved the devil horns at around 6 minutes. so kickass

  19. kkristen1 Says:

    during the video, when Billy was going on about the Nuclear Physics thing, it sparked something in my memory, and that comparison was the EXACT same one David Miscavaige gave in his Nightline interview, many years ago! i thought it was weird, and I think that Billy was planted there and yes was very nice, but something’s fishy. why is he only OT III after being in scientology since the 70s? WeIrD!!

  20. Ulf Says:

    Yes Scan, FBI must have planted those documents…GO and OSA would never do anything illegal…

  21. Narcissus Says:

    “All you have are the various appeals filed, since the actual conviction in which the actual plea by the defendants was actually Nolo contendere …”

    For fuck’s sake, Scan, by your own admission they were convicted. A “no contest” plea – well, that’s splitting hairs.

    Typical $cientology obfuscation.

    I’m sick of the bullshit from you guys, so I won’t comment on the rest of your comment. See Ulf’s YouTube link for more if you really believe the FBI framed the Co$.

    One last thing: Will you admit to Co$ wrongdoing in, say, Operation Freakout? You’d be the first $cientologist in my experience to do so.

    Lying, obfuscating motherfuckers, everyone of ya.

  22. Miguel Says:

    Like PJ said, what’s the deal with that shady “Frosty Ice” van parked behind Billy? I read in another protest posting that the COS was operating undercover surveillance out of a similar looking Van. Wouldn’t surprise me…Wonder if Billy knows he’s being watched by the COS Big Wigs.

  23. Xenuphobe Says:

    Sit him down for an interview; bring documents. He was very nice, and it would be really interesting. They might not let him do it, but it’s worth a shot.

  24. Artoo45 Says:

    Hmmmmmm. So either OSA sent him out as the new, reasonable, pleasant voice of $cientology, or he came out on his own and just wanted to defend his religion (understandable). In either case, he did a good job on the level of being personable and sounding reasonable about the unreasonable. I do agree that he was just as evasive as any other $cientologist would be about OT3, Ellie Perkins and Snow White, but not defensive and humorless. Maybe they’re starting to realize that defensive, humorless zealots are out PR.
    Another great interview Mark. I hope you can get him to sit down in the studio and Xenuphobe suggested, it would be great, but he probably was kept up for 12 hours of merciless Sec Checking after OSA got a look at the video. I say he won’t show if invited.

  25. ten Says:

    I doubt OSA sent him out there. Scientology goes to extremes to keep the average member from being exposed to any criticism of the church, let alone one of their celebrities. They are far too precious to risk so recklessly.

    Billy seemed like a really nice guy, and I believe him when he said that he had researched the allegations against the church (though I don’t agree with his conclusions). Another excellent xenutv interview.

    To the guy in the V mask who harangued Billy and told him that he was on acid, that was very rude and such behavior does no good. Scientologists are not dumb or deserving of abuse. They are normal people who have been misled.

    How can we expect to persuade them that they are being abused by $cientology if we as critics don’t even treat them with common courtesy?
    A little kindness goes a long way.

  26. Formo Mormo Says:

    It would be nice to hear about what he gets out of Scientology, how it’s improved his life, etc. Thee must be a reason someone would stay in since 1971 and I’d like to get his perspective on it.

  27. Mentorless Says:

    The interview shows Mr. Sheehan is a totally indoctrinated/brainwashed and well-trained Scientologist. He slimed out of direct confrontations, challenges, and exposures of contradictions in his OWN positions with typical CoS sleaze-ball tactics: “So, we have a difference of opinion; I respect your opinion; I really, really, really, really respect your opinion; We should talk LATER – not NOW – but LATER; I value your opinion; Mine is different; Bla, bla, bla, you know…; Bla, bla, bla, you know? You know? Well, we differ, so we should move on…”

    This guy doesn’t know the difference between an opinion, a fact, and a hole in the ground. Either his thinking is MESSED-UP and/or he is a very good ACTOR. At least he is well-trained at evading the issue at hand: not even a hint of shame or any other sign of self-awareness that his behavior is a denial of humanity’s greatest gift – sincere communication. How can he be considered, “a nice guy.” Therefore, his behavior was atrocious. What a jerk.

    His being calm and artificially polite is part of the Scn TRAINING! He wasn’t behaving like aggressive picket handlers usually do because he wasn’t ordered to “handle” the usual way. Aren’t public Ronbots quite rare at pickets – especially with signs? He was a plant.

    Of course hurling insults (i.e., “you’re on acid”) will have NO EFFECT. It comes with the TRAINING. (Actually, the “acid” comment was probably insulting in a different respect: CoS bans psychotropic drugs. Whatever respect, he’s trained to deny addressing recognitions – even in his own mind.) However, the same person’s comment, “you don’t know what you’re talking about” penetrated. Or did it? Rarely do Scns parrot. The only way to have a fair argument with a Scn about CoS is to deprogram her/him first. And that’s a monumental task. Sitting down with a Ronbot and agreeing what is legitimate documentation or not would be impossible, futile.

    But so it goes with Scientologists. It’s typical. The video is just more documentation of CoS’s harm. Not a waste of time – keeping exposure of CoS harm contemporary keeps up the good fight.

  28. Mentorless Says:

    Mr. Bunker,

    STOP linking to lisatrust.freewinds.cx!! It does not exist anymore.

    Also, the “trial of jesse” link is no good.

    Keep up the good work.

  29. Mr. Small Says:

    I hope this guy doesn’t get in trouble for being so honest. I really respect his ability to act the way he did. This is the most honest interview I’ve seen yet! I appreciate his deviation from the typical sciengology rhetoric.

  30. XENU TV Says:

    Mentorless, the freewinds site still exists but the dope hosting it won’t allow anyone to see it using IE. Use Firefox and the iste is there.

  31. ron l hitler Says:

    That’s a lot of fancy dancing by Mr. Sheehan – guy refuses to focus on any point or anything. Chronic denial. Critical thinking gone.

    Scientology is a drug. This guy is on it.

  32. Billy Sheehan Says:

    I read all these comments—now here’s one from me. It’s really me (Billy) making this comment too. Mark–I have respect for you for posting exactly what went down—thank you! I’m happy to speak with you anytime I can.
    Here’s the truth—nobody sent me, nobody prepped me–I went on my own. Backing off is not the same as backing down—I was not going to get into a shouting match. It does nobody any good. Afterwards, I went and got the Church point of view on all the subjects brought up to me. Very interesting. I’m nobody’s pawn, and I’m not a fool or a robot. I can truly understand why some people posting here don’t trust me, and I certainly hold nothing against them for it. I got into absolutely no trouble, and in fact received dozens of emails from Scientologist’s all over the world who were utterly elated that I was there. I’ve also received many emails from anti-Scientologist’s who were glad I was there as well. I’m always open to discuss any of this. I’m not an enemy of anyone critical to me or Scientology. As far as my “celebrity” status—ha! That’s hilarious. I got into Scientology WAY before I ever had a micron of success, and I haven’t seen any papparrazzi around my house lately!
    Peace & Respect to you all,
    Billy

  33. XENU TV Says:

    Thanks, Billy.

    I just did an interview with Jason Beghe. Did you know him inside Scientology?

    Mark

  34. Mike Says:

    I am not a scientologist but no matter what billy sheehan is an incredabally talanted musciaian and is one of my biggest influances in music.


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