Stone Hawk Responds

BROADCAST DATE: February 24th, 2007

What do you know? Stone Hawk posted a blog entry on their site about the Vince Daniels show. Turns out any patient who speaks out against Stone Hawk is a criminal. The patients are lying druggies and the parents are foolish enablers:

Many people enter a drug rehabilitation program to appease parents or the law and then deliberately leave or behave in a manner that gets them kicked out so they can continue to use drugs. Then, they turn around and say “Narconon stinks, they’re full of BS, they are only interested in taking our money, they are abusive…etc.” which is just justification for the addict to go out and use drugs. The addict then continues to get to do what they want to do guilt free because they tried, but Narconon failed. Parents are naturally enablers, and would oftentimes not want to put the blame on themselves or the addict, but turn to saying there is something wrong with what Stone Hawk did.

But what struck me most in the post was this section:

Although Narconon Stone Hawk is in no way associated with Scientology, the Narconon Program was created by L. Ron Hubbard, the same person who founded Scientology. This Vince Daniels, for whatever reason, has a problem with Scientologists. Because of his misconception that Narconon is associated with Scientology, he feels the need to attack it, too. Narconon does not teach or practice Scientology in it’s drug rehab program. Yet Vince Daniels goes to great lengths to degrade a drug rehab program that has saved the lives of thousands of people and families.

Wow. No connection to Scientology? Unbelievable. It is Scientology through and through. Listen to the last Vince Daniels show. The patients reveal that the same training routines are used, the same BS Hubbard policies of Ethics Officers and overts. I was stunned by all the Scientology jargon I heard from these former patients.

Listen, you want the truth? Turn to Professor Dave Touretzky. He’s done the research. Narconon is an official church program and designated as such in the church’s 1993 IRS agreement.

The social benefit and other public benefit entities discussed at pages 1-28 through 1-42 of the June [1992] submission [by CSI] along with all subsidiaries, subordinate chapters, subordinate organizations, or sub-licensees thereof (e.g., organizations that are permitted to use particular names, copyrights, service marks, and/or technologies) are Scientology-related entities. Thus, for example, Citizens Commission on Human Rights, National Commission on Law Enforcement and Social Justice, Scientology Defense Fund Trust, Association for the Better Living and Education, Applied Scholastics Incorporated, Narconon International, The Way to Happiness Foundation, and the Foundation for Religious Freedom are Scientology-related entities.
[“Closing agreement on final determination covering specific matters”, U.S. Internal Revenue Service, 1 October 1993]

Still, Stone Hawk respects Vince Daniels rights:

We respect the rights of Vince Daniels to print and say whatever he chooses on his radio show and blog. This great nation was built on the rights to do as such. But, his biased and false beliefs prevent him from telling both sides of the story. Truth be told, Narconon Stonehawk has saved lives.

Truth be told, Narconon Stone Hawk can’t tell the truth.

UPDATE

A reader has caught Stone Hawk editing sections of their blog to remove the blatant lie that Narconon is not affiliated with Scientology. The section now reads:

Vince Daniels, for whatever reason, has a problem with scientologists. Because of his misconcepton that Narconon is teaches the religion of Scientology, he feels the need to attack it too. Narconon does not teach or practice scientology in it’s drug rehab program. Yet Vince daniels goes to great lengths to degrade a legitimate and effective drug treatment program that has saved the lives of thousands of people and families.

Well, I am once again at cause over Scientology. I have forced them to react to a mere wog. See how powerful a non-OT can be? We don’t need hours and hours of training routines and indoctrination in the ways of that tubby, lunatic charlatan L. Ron Hubbard. All we need to do is tell the truth and, believe me, that is so much easier than jumping through the hoops put up by Scientology management.

What makes these attacks unfair is he only seeks out people who are dissatisfied with the program to speak. At no time does he bring in the comments or letters of those who swear by it. His website and radio show are filled with people who have terrible things to say about Stone Hawk, but these are all people, or parents of people, who have not successfully made it throught the program to no fault of Stone Hawk.

Wait? More lies? At NO time does Vince bring in the comments of those who swear by Narconon? Can Vince help it that the people who say good things about Narconon are Scientologists, many of whom lie about it or their connection to Narconon? What about the Wickstrom’s appearance on the show?

What about Bob Adam’s appearance on the show when he was too frightened to sit in the same room with Tory Christman?

I believe that Vince has had an open invitation out to Clark Carr or whoever would come on and openly speak about the issues. Too tough for an OT, it seems. The mighty beings are really outside of Scientology.

FURTHER UPDATE:

Being shown to be the frauds they are, the Stone Hawk people have moved their blog entry to a new url so the link from this site would not find it. They also suddenly have many success stories popping up to refute the the charges leveled on the show.

Notice how they whine about Vinnie not letting anyone speak positively about Narconon on his radio show? Try posting an opposing view to their blog and see how they react.

Think for yourself. Leave Scientology now.

Explore posts in the same categories: Vince Daniels

22 Comments on “Stone Hawk Responds”

  1. K Palmer Says:

    Thanks Mark – typical scientology bs – and attempt at dead agenting.

    Disgusting behaviour for a so-called rehab facility. The lies are blatant and the response predictable but needs to be answered none the less.

    Kim P

  2. Kilia Says:

    ” Narconon Stonehawk is in no way associated with Scientology,….”

    BS!! Per and his wife are scienos through and through!

  3. Undisclosed Says:

    Clark Carr would have thought he had a big ‘win’ when he bought off the Beha family, well how wrong was he?(you bet is a rhetorical question) It just keeps getting worse and worse for NarCONon and its bogus rehab program. Of course anyone who speaks out and critiques the authenticiity and legitimacy of Scientology is a criminal, its tenet of scientology that only criminals dont trust or bnelieve scientology because we all have evil intentions, being either injected into us by evil psychs, or marcabians are telepathically commanding the attacks on scientology from space.

    Good on Mark Bunker for his Wogblog. Good on Vince Daniels for exuding honesty in the media with no biasness and just factual based events. And good on all those who have had to deal with hubbards insane NarCONon at StoneHawk, that have spoken out about the filthy living conditions, the immorality of staff, the staff endorsed drug taking and the genearl negligence and criminality as a whole that is interwoven into the fabric of NarCONon and its parent, scientology.

    “Somebody some day will say ‘this is illegal.’ By then be sure the orgs say what is legal or not.”

    – L. Ron Hubbard
    Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter,
    4 January 1966

  4. if Says:

    The blog entry here http://www.narcononstonehawk.com/blog/2007/02/25/narconon-under-attack/
    was changed from:

    [snip] [snip]
    Although Narconon Stonehawk is in no way associated with Scientology, the Narconon Program was created by L. Ron Hubbard, the same person who founded Scientology. This Vince Daniels, for whatever reason, has a problem with Scientologists. Because of his misconception that Narconon is associated with Scientology, he feels the need to attack it, too. Narconon does not teach or practice Scientology in it’s drug rehab program. Yet Vince Daniels goes to great lengths to degrade a drug rehab program that has saved the lives of thousands of people and families.
    [snip][snip]

    to this

    [snip][snip]
    Vince Daniels, for whatever reason, has a problem with scientologists. Because of his misconcepton that Narconon is teaches the religion of Scientology, he feels the need to attack it too. Narconon does not teach or practice scientology in it’s drug rehab program. Yet Vince daniels goes to great lengths to degrade a legitimate and effective drug treatment program that has saved the lives of thousands of people and families
    [snip][snip].

  5. Mark Bunker Says:

    Thank you for catching this.

  6. Ray Says:

    That’s Scientology logic, thanks to Hubbard: if someone expose evidences of wrongs/abuses about Narconon and/or Scientology, they are criminal. Scientologists should instead focus their energy fixing the reported wrongs and abuses, but that would be counter-Hubbard Tech, and it seems scientologists have this habit of just sticking to “I do what Ron says”…

  7. Kimberly Says:

    They completely deleted it!!! They wouldn’t post our comments and a girlfriend of mine (previous student also) ended her comment with “unlike Vince who allows positive and negative comments on his show, you will probably not post this. you are worse than him” Within hours it was deleted!

  8. XENU TV Says:

    They can’t stand behind their words and they are too cowardly to allow anyone critical to post on their blog.

    What mighty beings they are.

  9. daswuulfe Says:

    Post away! we have nothing to hide

  10. daswuulfe Says:

    NO posts or comments have been deleted from our blog.

  11. daswuulfe Says:

    Drug addicts ARE liars and parents ARE enablers, ask any drug rehabilitation specialist from any program. That is the nature of the addictive relationship.

  12. Kimberly Darr Says:

    More lies daswuulfe! I have posted a number of comments and none have ever showed up. You WILL be exposed as a fraud…..and I am going to be there to bask in our victory that you will not take advantage of 1 more family!

  13. Mark Bunker Says:

    Well, Daswuulfe, did she just blow your little house down?

  14. lgattruth Says:

    Posted this already in a different thread but relevant here too, seems that this thread is more widely trafficked:

    MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia

    http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002409.htm

    “Large doses of niacin can cause liver damage, peptic ulcers, and skin rashes. Even normal doses can be associated with skin flushing. It can be prescribed as a treatment for elevated total cholesterol and other types of lipid disorders, but it should only be used with medical supervision due to its potential for severe side effects.”

    More info:
    http://stop-narconon.org/
    http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Stop-Narconon/Documents/IntScnNews/index.html
    http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Narconon/

  15. Desertphile Says:

    Bob Adam talked about DEMOCRACY?! Good gods that is funny: Scientology hates democracy with a purple passion.

  16. sukosaki Says:

    I noticed this as well. I actually have a blog post about their programs and what they offer at my website. This article is quite interesting as I read it. It makes a person wonder a little, after you read their website and your thoughts are skewed by this article. Thanks for the info.


  17. Jim Crow Laws Employment Law Us Supreme Court

    I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view

  18. Carlyn Says:

    I work for Narconon Stone Hawk, I have not been through the program. I am not a scientologist nor do I believe in scientology. I can say to all of the information above is, that everyone that works for Narconon Stone Hawk is there for a reasons and those reasons are to get people off drugs or alcohol. We strive to make this happen. I have seen students that come into our center on so many drugs thinking that this was not for them. Those students graduated our program and are now living a fulfilling life. Some students have nothing when they get to our center. And who helps them??? Do you really know?? I myself have been shopping at 1 am for a student that came with nothing. No toothbrush, clothes, or money. He came for help with what he had on himself. Narconon supplied him with everything he needed. Does it say above why some students were suspended from the program?? Their child says “Mom I didn’t do anything wrong, they just kicked me out”! Let me tell you why some students are suspended- 1.) Bringing drugs or using drugs on the property. 2.) Stealing 3.) Committing violence against another student, property or staff member. 4.) Not willing to work on getting healthy. 5.) Committing sexual acts with another student. These are only some of the reasons. Nobody writes this in their blogs. The students families only see the dollar signs, in which they want back. Nobody wants to admit that their child messed up again in yet another rehab. Honestly if you want to believe all of the crap people write on there, than you would not be reading this. I have seen first hand how drugs can take everything away from somebody. We at Narconon Stone Hawk are given people their lives back. So there are maybe 15 stories on here. I see more than 15 people start the program every month. What about the many and I say MANY people that have came to Narconon Stone Hawk became drug free, now have their lives back and are fulfilling their once goals. I can sit there and post hundred and thousands of successful stories from students that have gotten drug free.
    If you have any questions please email mail me at (narcononstonehawkbattlecreek@yahoo.com).

  19. Sister Says:

    Carolyn, why would you bite the hand that feeds you?

  20. steve Says:

    for starters, rehab is NOT what gets you sober. anyone who’s ever tried to get sober and stay sober knows that. you have to want it. narconon is fraudulent to say the least. a.a. is really the way to go. and before anyone starts yelling and screaming about how much cover up there’s been about the founders of a.a. i know all about it. i researched it, but made the decision that a.a.’s core ideas are good ones. most people who i tell about the steps think they’d be great steps for anyone to live by. anyway, i’m in now way shape or form an a.a. cheerleader. if i didn’t have to go i wouldn’t, but hey it’s free and it works. rehab’s BS. the only valid part of rehab is the idea that you should go there to medically detox, which is true because detoxing can be dangerous without medical supervision. and the argument that you need to be pulled from your environment and that’s the purpose of rehab is BS too. why? because you have to want to be sober to stay sober. going to rehab doesn’t change anything if you still want to get high and drink. it’s a fact and i know it because i’ve been there (in rehab, not wanting to quit) and so have many of my friends. when i finally got sober for real it was free one phone call, an a.a. directory, god and meetings. not a ton of meetings, but meetings as needed. that’s all it took, hitting rock bottom and being truly disgusted with my life and where it had gone and was headed. anyone who thinks that any program’s going to fix an 18 year old kid, or even a 55 year old man who still wants to use is ignorant.

  21. et Says:

    i went through the narconon program starting in battle creek MI and finishing in Albion MI. It was the first long term inpatient program i had ever been too. I had just turned 18. In the 5 months i was there i learned a lot about myself, as well as everyone else that was around me. for the most part i can truely say that this program was insane, and many of the people were untrustworthy, and brainwashed by L Ron Hubbards scientology beliefs. When it was mentioned above that people would be kicked out for no reason, this was true some of the time. I had a lot of my friends get kicked out just because they were on the shit list of some of staff members. I had some ridiculous experiences at narconon stone hawk that i will never forget. I met people that are still very much in my life today. Overall i do not agree with the way this program was ran, and i think the scams these people pull should be made known. On the other hand, even though i was put through hell for 5 months, i am no longer a drug addict, and i am sober.

  22. rocky49152 Says:

    Alcholics, addicts, family members – please… PLEASE try one of the many (free) 12-step programs available worldwide before you begin looking at rehabilitation centers like Narconon. I have done so myself and they work – will be 2 years since I’ve had a drink as of 12/26/2009, and I have not felt any measurable desire to use in that time.

    Whatever you decide to do though – it should be obvious from this and several other postings that Narconon is a scam and should be avoided at ALL costs.

    I’m shocked that there is even a live debate over this issue. The true “founder” of this program – L. Ron Hubbard, openly admitted that he sought to start a religion to make money around the time he founded scientology. What’s criminal about it is that when they’re taking this stuff to Alcoholics and drug addicts, they’re preying on people or their family members who are invariably desperate and in true need of help. It’s despicable and it’s evil.


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