Don’t Cross Vince Daniels

There are very few people in the media willing to take on Scientology. Vince Daniels is one of them. He has challenged Scientology’s front group Narconon to do the right thing and refund money to parents whose kids were booted out of Hubbard’s dangerous drug-rehab program.

In previous shows, Vince has talked with Greg Beha whose son was dumped in a seedy motel with $10 to his name after the kid said he thought Hubbard was full of crap. On this show, Vince does a quick recap of Beha’s story with an update on the lack of progress but the bulk of the show is an interview with another parent, Denise Crosby, who shares a story very similar to the Beha’s.

Explore posts in the same categories: Front Groups, Radio Broadcasts, Vince Daniels

27 Comments on “Don’t Cross Vince Daniels”

  1. Greg Beha Says:

    You Decide!

    Narconon Rehabilitation Centers are all over the world. There is twelve Narconon Rehabilitation Centers in the United States. They are based on the findings of William Benitez and were fully developed by L. Ron Hubbard. L. Ron Hubbard is also the founder of Scientology. Narconon boast a 60 to 70 % success rate in their Drug Rehabilitation Center. The National average is 10 to 20%.The Narconon program cost approx $23,500 and this money has to be paid up front upon enter the program. The Narconon program is a non-refundable program and is a 3 to 6 month program. The Narconon program has a Drug-Free Withdrawal where they administered vitamins and Cal-Mag (a drink combination of calcium and magnesium) every six hours. They also have a sauna portion of the program where they begin sweating and elimination toxins (such as drugs) out of your body.
    On June 30th 2006 we entered our son into Narconon Stone Hawk Drug Rehabilitation Center of Battle Creek, Michigan. After checking him in they took him right to Detox. After a few days our son finished the detox withdrawal part of the program. Our son started the next phase of the program (Therapeutic Training Routines Course) which teaches one’s ability to confront and communicate.
    On July 18th around 7:00pm (18 days into the program) they loaded my son’s belongings and drove him 26 miles away to a motel room and dropped him off. They paid for his room and gave him $10.00. He was over 300 miles from home.
    On July 27th we got a hold of the owner of Narconon Stone Hawk (PerWickstrom) and he told us that there would be No Refund.
    On September 16, 2006 I had the opportunity to talk to Clark Carr, (president of Narconon) about my situation. He informed me that he would talk to the owner of that Narconon Center (Per Wickstrom) and see if something could be worked out.
    On September 27th I finally reached Per Wickstrom on the phone and his final answer was that I was not going to receive any refund.
    On October 6, I made the trip to Manistee to confront Per Wickstrom in person about my refund. Out in the parking lot Per Wickstrom told me that I was not going to receive any refund.
    How can a Narconon Drug Rehabilitation Center get away with this type of abuse? I turned to them for help and they dumped my son in a motel 18 days later and over 300 miles from home.
    Is this a common practice for all the Narconon Centers?

    Still waiting on my $23,500 refund

    Greg and Beth Beha
    19431 Taylor Ridge Road
    Glouster, Ohio 45732

  2. Gordon Says:

    Hey Mark, as you speak about this i’ve just today found a link to a news article you’ll find amusing,,2087-2535187,00.html

    Seems Narconon is getting into the British school systems, i’m glad i’m long out of school!

    Keep up the good work Mark!

  3. I receive a great deal of email from victims of Scientology’s quack medical “NarCOnon” fraud, and most desire only to help expose the scam so that others aren’t rooked and swindled the same way they were. contains numerous articles covering this Scientology fraud.

  4. Trams Says:

    Make no mistake the time will come , for all the wrongs that you have done , and as the dwindling spiral is a part of life , David Miscavage will pay his price . You’ve robbed from others for much to long , while sitting high upon your throne , your door is open now we can see , your promotion of hubbard’s instainty . I see the tears from all the eyes , and hear the sounds of all the cries , I’ve known of people who are like you , who live to hurt others in what they do . I know my poem and I know it well , theirs a place for you and its called jail , make no mistake your time has come , for all the wrongs that you have done .

  5. meredeth young Says:

    i too was a “student” at stonehawk aug 14, 2007 till oct 8, 2007 they made a serious medical error that was not discovered until i pushed the issue we are also trying to get our money back and they still have not refunded my medical or student account which has nothing at all to do with my regular fee i paid $30000 but my student account was started with the $384 approx that they removed from my wallet the first night. i did receive a letter which i wouldnt sign about why i was being suspended one of there reasons was that i offended a scientologiest we had to look up the word they used on the internet because it was not in a regular dictionary. we are also getting the run around from narconon and there lawyers. moral to the story familys please do your homework before you spend your money.

    good luck to all of us!!!

  6. clay Says:

    I was a “drug prevention specialist” AKA- drug ed speaker in Boston for a few quacks. After “graduating and doing drugs there (everyone did, no one ever got tested) I moved to boston. They tought e scripted speach about how ALL drugs are bad, even asprin and they are all LYPOPHELIC, according LRH, this means that all drugs stay in the fat. Narcononon claims these drugs will be released with leathal doses of nicademic acid (niacin) and sitting in a sauna for 5 hours untill you EP. This means you reach some cognition or “cog” and you feel clear. DRUGS ARE NOT LYPOPHELLIC only thc is. I told children all kinds of B.S. and soon told them y story and never mentioned narconon. I just told the kids how I got involved in RX drugs and Heroin and Methadone. I infored them about perscription drugs in which i know alot about (Dad and Sister are Pharmacists) I told the kids how pain pill abuse or getting a tooth out could lead you down the wrong path. Theylways asked me about what they saw. I met the leader Maria who was after Patty and after I started taking Percacet again I left and went to AA and got sober and have been for over 3 years. I have a great job, a 8 month old son and I am married. They tried to keep me there and they lied to my family and I truly got caught up and brainwashed that I no life except there. All the success stories are lies because they make you write them if you want to advance and graduate. There are no Dr’s. inexperienced Nurses and at Detox i looked into peoples eyes and could not move or else I would have to stay longer. I could have died quitting cold turkey. The withdrawl specialists were on dope! they had just graduated. The Boston ug ed” should be shut down. they are going for outer city schools since they have been banned. We are allowing our youth to be brainwashed and if my son was exposed to one of these idiots at school I would freek. I have a bud who graduated law school and he is going to see what he can dig up “pro bono”. LRH is a quack. I was tought to lie, isolate, think normal people are wierd or suppressive and when i worked 50 hours a week in boston I made 250 dollars. Then I was late and was put in “lowers” and did not get paid until I made it up by cleaning the bathrooms etc. I can go on and on./

  7. damien Says:

    these narconon seem like a nasty bunch of chaps, hope Mr. and Mrs. Beha get their money back.

    Damien Wills,

    Durham, England.

  8. Jane Cunneen Says:

    I pulled my son out of Narconon Stonehawk after hearing of the potentially dangerous activities that go on there via the Vince Daniel’s Show. On Feb 24th, I removed my son once I realized that he was made to sign a “death release” consent for the sauna portion of this program. He was being given mega-vitamin doses; however, after multiple requests to Narconon staff (including the nurses) no one returned my calls or could tell me the exact doses of vitamins he was being given. Additionally, he was exposed to a filthy sanitation environment. I have filed information with the Michigan licensing authorities and will continue to file complaints to appropriate authorities. I have recently received additional bills from Narconon for services provided including charges for over $1,000/day for the 3 hour sauna sessions and vitamins. This program is deeply connected to Scientology desptie the staff vowing it is not. My son’s class book was “based on the works of L. Ron Hubbard.” Additionally, my son was never allowed to attend Christian church services on Sunday (as promised he would). I expect ongoing legal battles over this situation. Please be careful, I was told many things which did not match the reality of what my son was exposed to.

  9. XENU TV Says:

    Thank you, Jane. I appreciate you speaking out.

  10. dave Says:

    I was a 19 year old herion addicted miss guided youth and was shiped from south jerzy to newport beach narconon and spent 6.5 months there in 2006. 4 as a “student, and 2 as a staff member and with my time there i can say that this facility is dangerous! the things that go on with-in this place range from phyical assults, to sexual assults both on patientcs from staff. after all there “highly trained staff” are in fact recovering addicts with less that 5 months clean who have responsabilty over the first floor “detox” stage clients. I have one sugestion to thows who are considering sending a loved one to this facility… DON’T!

  11. chas n Says:

    i am at newport narconon as i type this message and i can tell you this place is fu$ked up i came here with only three months court ordered and gave the program permission to talk to the courts to repert good things on my behalf. they told the courts that three months was not enough and now im here till september. they say its not related to the church of scientology but let me tell you thats a load of b.s. the hole program is based from the works of elron hubbard and infact my resurch on scientology showes that the program is almost identicle to the classes that the church tries to sell to people. while they dont directly try to recrute you to the church it is my beleif that they are attemting to “help you get free” in a hope that upon leaving the program you will croos over persay to their beliefs. its all lies manipulation and yes the staff are power tripping addicts who have been clean fer maybee three to five months with bullshit for training. do not send anyone here you will regret it i promis there are many other rehabs that are non scientology and as this one sells itself as a resort its all deseption and is truly far from it.

  12. XENU TV Says:

    Thanks, Chas. Keep safe in there. Let us know how things are going.

  13. chelsey Says:

    That seedy motel that they dump people off in I actually used to be employed at. I was outraged by the way I saw their treatment towards their patients. Like states above, they would put them in a hotel, which is an area known for drug abuse, with only pocket change, and they would even withhold their cell phone, and of course they would be stressed out with no way to come home. many times i would offer them my cell phone to make phone calls and i would talk to parents as a witness to their treatment towards them (in one case, they said to a person, maybe YOUR god can help you know, and left.) many times they would have to get money from family and i would help them find a cab ride to the airport as well. I am a substance abuse minor and a college student, and this is no way to run a rehab center! these people are looking for help and THIS is what they get? for $20,000?!

  14. Mark Bunker Says:

    Very interesting commnets, Chelsey. Thanks for posting!

  15. Rebecca Hooshyar Says:

    Why are some treatment centers $20,000 range and others in the high $30,000?

  16. PJ Says:

    HELP! We sent our son to Narconon XX days ago and now know we have made a grave mistake. We are afraid to say too much here in case they read this and figure out who it is and make it harder on him. What are our rights to get him out? Do we have any?



  17. Luberoo Says:

    we paid over $25,000 to Narconon Newport Beach in Jan-2006. We were desperate parents of a heroin addict, in retrospect the people “running” the place feed off the desperation of family members. After 6 months of shuffling him to southern Calif and a place in Utah, he was “discharged” as messed up as when we sent him. This place is a total rip off, my son said he and the “counselors” did drugs the whole time. The counselors are drug addicts with basically no clean time, Narconon doesn’t pay them hardly anything. They try to get all the addicts to stay there and work when they graduate, so guess what- they have little overhead. There are no doctors, no medical personel, or certified staffers of any kind. They are Drug Addicts, and the only ones that stay there and work are the ones who have no place else to go. The place is chronically overcrowded, why doesn’t the city ever fine them!I’m heartsick about the money we wasted, and beg any parents- go there yourself and see what is happening before you hand over your money. Approx 30 kids at a time at $20,000 per with no overhead–you do the math!

  18. PJ Says:

    I have been doing more research into Narconon. I have also talked with my son’s doctor who is very concerned about the sauna and high doses of niacin. My son’s sauna treatment begins in a few days. What do I do? If he leaves, they will not refund the 33,000 dollars we spent to send him there. We would need that money to get him into a REAL treatment program. We are not rich and do not have access to that kind of money. How do we get the money refunded? I have created a yahoo account that is not my real one, so that I am able to display it here. Yes, I am afraid of the Scientologists and what they may do to me and my family. Although I am a very strong and power mother who you do not want to cross when it comes to my kids.

    You may also im me there.

    Thank You,


  19. Mark, FYI, I received an email on PJ’s situation which was posted about here. I am responding to her via email to see what I can do to assist her in understanding what is going on and what her options are.

    This blog page is so helpful. Thank you for having the information up there for others to read.

  20. XENU TV Says:

    Thanks so much, Mary!

  21. XENU TV Says:

    And I just restored the video for this segment as well.

  22. Anon Says:

    If they won’t refund your money, report the issue to . They bring attention to bad behavior by businesses. Check out the site. They have helped many people. The last thing Narcanon wants is bad publicity.

  23. Eddie Stone Says:

    My daughter , a crack addict, went to Newport Narconon in July 2007. I recieved a call 5 weeks later telling me they were taking her to the airport because she had been put on a 30 suspension for kissing a boy for the 2nd time. I was given 1 hour to make flight arrangements (which were very expensive to fly cross country on short notice). I was told after she got home that they did not want her to come back to Narconon because she had too many problems. Problems that I had told them about before she went there. Do they really think that an addict can stay clean without completing a program and will go back? Then, in Feb 2008, my daughter came to me and told me she wanted to go back into treatment…that she needed help. I called the 1-800- no drugs and talked with a person that represented themselves as a drug counselor that knew all the treatment facilities in the U.S. I was calling to inquire about a Christian treatment center. He told me that the place I was interested in could not help her and that he recommended that I send her to Stonehawk Narconon. I told him that she needed trauma counseling and he assured me that she would get it there. So, believing that this man was giving me unbaised information, I called the person he told me to call at Stonehawk. I was assured by this person of several things. One, was that she would get individual counseling from a therapists for her trauma issues, that Stonehawk was seperate from Newport and had no bearing on their program, and that she would not be made to leave if she broke any rules. I repeatedly asked these questions and each time I was assured that there would not be any problem. The day that my daughter left to go to STonehawk, I received a call from a man named Ray. He told me that he had talked to me originally. He told me that he was one of the directors at Stonehawk. I was in shock! He had lead me to believe that he was an independent drug counselor when we first talked. I sent an email to Stonehawk telling them that it upset me to know that Ray had not be upfront with me and led me their facility. But, my daughter was already there by then. After completing the detox, my daughter called and told me that they were going to put her on ethics because of having left Newport on ethics. I told them that this was NOT going to happen because of the assurances they had given me earlier. They told me that she would not have to do the ethics. She called me the next day and told me that they were making her to do ethics. I called again and told them that she absolutley was not. SHe was kept in limbo for 4 days doing nothing but watching TV. They finally started her in the program on that 5 day. During this time, she had fallen and sprained her ankle. Her room was on the 3rd floor and the elevator was broken. She also had a double ear infection. She called me at 1:00 pm and asked me if I would call them and ask them to bring her her medicine and some food because she could not walk down 3 flights of stairs. THey didn’t even bring her the morning antibotic or the tylenol for pain or ice packs. I called them a week later and told them that this was just not a good fit for her and that I was wanting to move her to another facility the next week. I received a call the next day on my lunch hour from a Andy that told me that she was going to have to leave the facility that day. I told him that I was at work and did not have access to a computer to make arrangements and why could she not stay there for four more days since I had paid Narconon almost $40,000 between the 2 facilities. He said it “wasn’t going to happen and she WAS going to leave today.” She called me that night and told me that they were going to either take her to a homeless shelter or a motel and leave her. I called the West Coast International Headquarters demanding that she not be left at either of these places and I was given a cell phone number for their East coast headquarters. I talked with an Evonne and explained that I was sick with worry because I didnt’ know where my daugheter was at that time. She said she would make some calls and get back with me shortly. I started calling her cell phone after waiting for 3 hours. I left repeated messages begging her to call me and she never did. I started calling Stonehawk and no one was there that could talk to me. I finally made arrangements that day for her to return home and go to another facility. She has told me so many horrible things about the place. The kitchen was closed down because of health violations. 10 people that worked there were fired that week because they went out and either drank or did drugs. A 3 story facilty without a working elevator. Mold in the rooms and sauna. I feel horrible that I sent my child to a place like this! What makes it even worse is that this the first time she had ever come to me and had asked for help and look where I sent her! I feel that this Ray character practiced fraudulent practices in the way he presented himself to me as an independent drug counslor. These places know that the kids probably will not complete their treatment plan and therefore the parents are out of their life savings. How disgraceful is that? Having sent her to other facilities in the past, my money was gone. My 89 year old mother used her life savings to send her to these 2 Narconon programs! They should be ashamed of themselves. I have just returned from the other facility. What a difference! Now, I will be contacting an attorney to sue for partial refund of my money. And I will be finding out what other avenues I can take to report them in Michigan.

  24. XENU TV Says:


    Thanks for sharing your families story. My god, these bastards are heartless. I wish you great luck in getting your money back. It won’t be easy because these are not ethical people at all.

    I’m going to place your story on a more prominent spot of the blog and draw more attention to it.

    All my best,

    Mark Bunker

  25. joseph Says:

    There is a program in /Central AMerica (ProNino) where they are using the sauna method to detox street children from glue. A Narconon employee is a consultant to them. Should the program be given info about the controversies?

  26. Dude Says:

    Narcanon insanity is bad, yes, but the twelve steps are far worse. I am from England, I have been to 6 rehabs for my drug and alcohol abuse, I was threatened, manipulated, raped, verbally stoned to death, brainwashed and left feeling far worse than when I began. Rehabs are a menace to a persons soul, the counsellors, often recovering addicts, are riddled with their own emotional issues and either too weak boundaries or too strong boundaries. They are very much like prison, in rehab you will meet recidivists, you will meet nasty, malicious people, dealers, etc. You will get an education, not rehabilitation. The people who do well in rehabs, in my experience are people who play the counsellors game and say what the counsellors want to hear, which is a vapid, sickly sweet version of their personal truth. I am appalled at Narcanon’s perfidy, but I don’t find it suprising. At some point, the governments of America and England, will have to do some sort of research into what is humane and acceptable treatment for people, who for the most part, are suffering and vulnerable. Let them prove their stats, let them prove it.

    I hope the people who have grievances with this pernicious cult like organisation, Narcanon, get a full refund and an apology. But I doubt it.

    Yours cynically,

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